Where Did The God's REALLY Originate From?

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Where Did The God's REALLY Originate From?

Post by Just.Christine on Thu Jan 29, 2015 8:38 am

I spent the better part of the wee hours reading about the Lombards on Wikipedia. Also bookmarked the Burgundians as well. I had NO idea that the majority of Italy was settled and ruled by Germanic peoples in Medieval times! I was shocked when I saw the maps! They were ruled by Bavarian Royalty and a queen Theodelinda, daughter of Garibald, Duke of Bavaria.

They had the peculiar tradition of the Queen choosing her husband if one died. This is strikingly similar to the argument brought up in Lokasenna about Frigga taking both Odin's brothers when Odin was exiled. The Queen comes with the throne. She IS the throne. It's been argued by Heathen history and lore researchers and writers that Loki was wrong in mocking her for this, but was he? The writer [cite source needed, come back] claimed Frigga would have been innocent and more or less stuck with the brothers if they took the throne. But if she IS the throne, and takes after the manner of the Lombards, whom she tricked Odin into giving a victory against the Vandals, then....?

Anyhow, what does this have to do with the topic title? Nothing much for now. I would like to posit that the Mongols/Huns brought Odin to Europe. Atilla the Hun is included in some of the Sagas and Eddas, from a Germanic pov, of course. But the Gods were called 'Asa' which is generally accepted to mean Asian.[cite sources. Also, Ass means God or Mouth] Of course Asia is huge. People think of Asian nowadays and they think of China, Japan and the Asian Islands. But back then the Turks would have been considered Asian. I'm sure there's a lot I'm forgetting from what I have read so far, but suffice it to say that the Gods are Asian in origin. And the Mongols certainly were barbaric and savage like many of the more aggressive Germanic tribes like the Suebian tribes. The Suebian tribes were like Africanized honey bees;
very aggressive.

It occurred to me how it's often mentioned that Odin traveled about wearing a wide brimmed hat which is depicted in art as a 'wizard' hat or a wide brimmed hat that's flat on top.

Or maybe this:



anyhow...food for thought. I'll be looking into this more.

to be continued....

But, might the hat not also have looked like this?


or this?
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Re: Where Did The God's REALLY Originate From?

Post by Just.Christine on Thu Jan 29, 2015 8:45 am

Of course, like anything posted on this forum, all of this is subject to correction, alteration and evolution.
More will be revealed. Smile
For example, I haven't yet researched the origins of this hat, which would include when it's made it's appearance in history.
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Re: Where Did The God's REALLY Originate From?

Post by Darkamber on Thu Jan 29, 2015 12:52 pm

"
Ass"
simply means "
god"
, which stems from the Proto-Germanic "
ansis-ansuz"
, which means "
god"
or "
mouth"
.
In Old English it's "
os"
, in Old Saxon it's "
as"
, in Old Norse it's "
ass"
or "
oss"
, and in Icelandic it's "
as"
.

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Re: Where Did The God's REALLY Originate From?

Post by Just.Christine on Thu Jan 29, 2015 12:57 pm

Thanks! This is why I ask for input.
And Odin surely can be an 'Ass' lol. Yes, my humor is irreverent. And often tacky as well. Fart jokes, turds, and other toilet humor. >
<
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Re: Where Did The God's REALLY Originate From?

Post by Darkamber on Thu Jan 29, 2015 1:06 pm

The Proto-Germanic word can itself be traced back to Proto-Indo-European, but I don't know much about PIE.

Some scholars think that the Æsir was originally brought to northern Europe with the Indo-European migration.
That may be so, but the Æsir became the gods of northern Europe, and as a hard-polytheist, I believe they are distinctive and separate Individuals and not aspects of other gods.

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Re: Where Did The God's REALLY Originate From?

Post by Moon Rouge on Thu Jan 29, 2015 1:54 pm

My very own just made up theory is that the Odin looks in the so typical hat are a bit Gandalfalized and not only by movies, much before, when the books were written.

Some say Attila the Hun himself was Germanic origin, not the Hun.

Hun originated nations in Europe are Finns and Hungarians. The other split to Germanic, Italic, and Slavic.
Germainc and Slavic gods have a lot common.
Perun is cross, in character and virtues, between Odin and Thor, Veles is cross between Loki and Odin. To say this bear in mind it is very very very simplified!

I more than agree with Darkamber on this, I too believe they are distinctive and separate Individuals and not aspects of other gods.
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Re: Where Did The God's REALLY Originate From?

Post by Just.Christine on Thu Jan 29, 2015 2:48 pm

Well, I read in a book about Norse Mythology that Asa meant Asia or Asian. Since I don't recall which book, it must be one of the old, old pre-turn of the 20th century books that are outdated. I've read a dozen or so books on Norse Mythology in the past 6 months so it's hard to recall which books I may have gotten information from.

If there are certain scholastic methods to research, I don't know them. I certainly can't afford to go to college so my ways of researching things may seem to make no sense. I just follow bread crumbs. I may get 99 things wrong but by God, that 100th thing is going to be the discovery of the century!..By accident. :mrgreen:
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Re: Where Did The God's REALLY Originate From?

Post by Just.Christine on Thu Jan 29, 2015 6:03 pm

I did happen to look more into the hats because I've been obsessing about it all day. I did find some art dating to the 15th century that show the wide-brimmed, flat topped hat.

The problem is that these paintings are 15th century, this style of hat wasn't worn as clerical garb until the mid-13th century but the subject matter is St. Gregory who was a pope during the Lombard reign of Italy at the time, 590 CE till 604. It seems artists didn't have much in the way of reference.


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Re: Where Did The God's REALLY Originate From?

Post by Moon Rouge on Thu Jan 29, 2015 7:45 pm

It is the Saint Jerome who wears the red hat. Here he is painting of the Master Theodoric from mid of 14 century.

This is better picture http://centuriespast.tumblr.com/image/83844201283
I know, I should just say nothing because it is about the hat and not the head the hat sits on, but I couldn't resit the itch. Smile
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Re: Where Did The God's REALLY Originate From?

Post by Just.Christine on Thu Jan 29, 2015 10:14 pm

Note to self: Be sure I'm not hypomanic before splatting a disorganized mess that leads nowhere in a public forum.

*facepalms*

If I never read about another hat it'll be too soon.

What the hell was I thinking? I went from Huns to hats to catholic clergymen and now all I can do is ask...why? Laughing
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Re: Where Did The God's REALLY Originate From?

Post by Moon Rouge on Thu Jan 29, 2015 10:22 pm

Awwww I could be me... I used to have that effect on people in working place got them running a bit in circles without ill intend.
I'm sorry! I didn't know I still have it! LOL
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Re: Where Did The God's REALLY Originate From?

Post by Just.Christine on Thu Jan 29, 2015 11:57 pm

Nope. Definitely architect of my own foolishness. I haven't been hypomanic in a long time. It's usually depression, so I got a bit exuberant about my topic, lol. Yesterday I was reading about Lombards in Italy, Charlemagne, Burgundians, Goths. Stuff from 4th - 11th centuries C.E. I get absorbed, then obsessed, and finally tangled and lost. LOL!

This all sort of grew out of Loki's tasks as a side thing.
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Re: Where Did The God's REALLY Originate From?

Post by Moon Rouge on Fri Jan 30, 2015 1:24 am

Lucky you! I had to walk in the snow, do the food shopping, and plunge the toilet!
I get also obsessive when I look for something. Smile
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Re: Where Did The God's REALLY Originate From?

Post by Just.Christine on Fri Jan 30, 2015 3:02 am

Moon Rouge wrote:Lucky you! I had to walk in the snow, do the food shopping, and plunge the toilet!
I get also obsessive when I look for something. Smile

Ohhh! God! Mee too! Surprised

If it's not an answer on the internets then it's something I 'swore I saw in the junk drawer' and I wont rest until I find it.
Luckily I have a knack for finding things [physical objects] more often than not these days. It's weird;
almost like I'm a dousing rod. I don't see what I'm looking for I just go to it and find it. My ex told me once, "
It's instinct. You're doing it by instinct."
He's right. It's like birds flying south. they don't know how they know, they just go!
I think my house wight has a lot to do with it. We're linked and he guides me instinctively.

But when I obsess, I don't half-ass it, lol. Obsessing is an Odin-ish thing.
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Re: Where Did The God's REALLY Originate From?

Post by Darkamber on Fri Jan 30, 2015 3:14 am

Moon Rouge wrote:My very own just made up theory is that the Odin looks in the so typical hat are a bit Gandalfalized and not only by movies, much before, when the books were written.

If I recall correctly Gandalf was inspired by Odin. Tolkien loved Norse mythology.

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Re: Where Did The God's REALLY Originate From?

Post by Just.Christine on Fri Jan 30, 2015 3:48 am

Darkamber wrote:
Moon Rouge wrote:My very own just made up theory is that the Odin looks in the so typical hat are a bit Gandalfalized and not only by movies, much before, when the books were written.

If I recall correctly Gandalf was inspired by Odin. Tolkien loved Norse mythology.


For sure he was! My jaw dropped to the floor when I saw how much he ganked from the Edda's and Sagas. Every Dwarf in Hobbit and LOTR is listed in the Eddas. And Gandalf was a dwarfs name in the Eddas.

Although I think Odin is prolly a tad more like Saruman the White than Gandalf the Grey. Wring all the nasty and mean out of Odin and you might get close to something like Gandalf. Laughing
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Re: Where Did The God's REALLY Originate From?

Post by Darkamber on Fri Jan 30, 2015 5:00 am

Maybe Odin is like Gandalf on His good days... LOL

Odin doesn't appear as nasty and mean to His wives, though. He's got many facets, too, like all the Norse gods.
Odin and Loki seem to be the most complex of Them.

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Re: Where Did The God's REALLY Originate From?

Post by Moon Rouge on Fri Jan 30, 2015 9:41 am

Tolkien took a lot from Eddas, and in very good way, I think. My jaw dropped when I read Gandalf listed as a dwarf, and see all the other names there!
Darkamber said it well, about Norse gods, Loki, and Odin, His wives love Him.
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Re: Where Did The God's REALLY Originate From?

Post by erinlale on Fri Jan 29, 2016 11:44 am

Tolkien directly stated in print that he wrote Lord of the Ring to bring back "that noble Northern spirit," so yeah, Gandalf = Odin is pretty well established. I always felt there was something special and real about Gandalf as a child.

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Re: Where Did The God's REALLY Originate From?

Post by Lokakisa on Mon Feb 01, 2016 6:31 pm

Ooh, neat thread, and yeah I get on tangents like that too, obsessive about things, lol.
I got a book from Amazon called "The Viking World," it's a hefty thing, almost seems like a textbook! I think it was Loki'sBruid who recommended it somewhere as apparently there is something about Loki in it.
I have too many damn books now and spend too much time playing Final Fantasy XIV to get anywhere lol. At any rate a glance at the table of contents looks like it is pretty comprehensive!

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Re: Where Did The God's REALLY Originate From?

Post by Just.Christine on Tue Feb 02, 2016 1:21 pm

Lokakisa wrote:Ooh, neat thread, and yeah I get on tangents like that too, obsessive about things, lol.
I got a book from Amazon called "The Viking World," it's a hefty thing, almost seems like a textbook! I think it was Loki'sBruid who recommended it somewhere as apparently there is something about Loki in it.
I have too many damn books now and spend too much time playing Final Fantasy XIV to get anywhere lol. At any rate a glance at the table of contents looks like it is pretty comprehensive!

Uh oh! Final Fantasy sure can soak up the hours and days of your life! I never got but halfway through FFVI myself. Tried 7 and 10 too. Just never took off for me.

You know, one thing about Loki always stands out to me. From the writer pov, the god's behavior's were virtuous at the times even though today their methods would be questionable at least and downright undesirable often. Loki's ancient flaws are far more virtuous and relevant for our age. He's a god for this age; bringing a sense of working morality and of humility versus boastfulness.
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Re: Where Did The God's REALLY Originate From?

Post by Lokakisa on Wed Feb 03, 2016 4:51 pm

I like that train of thought! Which makes it even more dumb for some ass-hat Norse pagans to still consider Him the "supervillain" despite everything He did to help! When the gods had a problem, who did They go to? Not Odin, but Loki!

Ohh, but newer FF games are so much better, "Crisis Core" on PSP was really good (at least go look at the eye candy images ... oh that Sephiroth), and so far the FF14 MMO is very solo-friendly. I wanted to play the game with Vincent, keep forgetting to find it and it may just be outdated by now. Clips from FF15 look amazing, that will be awhile before finished though, and it's not an MMO. I'm actually doing better about the time I spend on them than when I played the FF11 MMO, where you really needed other players' help a lot. (honestly I spend too much time on the net and not reading books, but hell I get a book or magazine out and it's like instant cat magnet lol!)
Oh and I think there is going to be a FF7 remake!!
The Dissidia games are fun too but I got tired of it real quick ... which sucks 'cause I adore Laguna and he is in the second one, but it just seemed like doing the same things over and over. Kinda like the Kingdom Hearts series, just repetitive with pretty scenery.

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