Loki as a god of fire

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Loki as a god of fire

Post by Darkamber on Wed Jan 14, 2015 5:41 am

Many say that Loki is not a god of fire, that there is no evidence in the lore for it. They say that this belief stems from a confusion with how Richard Wagner portrayed Loki as a demigod of fire in "
Der Ring des Nibelungen"
.

If you look at Loki's conception, it might be symbolically read as the birth of wildfire. His father is Farbauti ("
cruel-striker"
) and His mother is Laufey ("
leafy isle"
). Farbauti can be interpreted as a personification of lightning. So, lightning strike an isle with trees, and wildfire (Loki) is born.


There is however evidence in folklore that Loki was honoured as the spirit of the hearth fire. Some sceptics say that folklore is too new to count, but they don't consider that although it wasn't written down before the 19th or 20th century, it is beliefs that has been handed down through many generations.

Also, as Elizabeth Vongvisith - who was, IIRC, the first public (online) Loki-wife - said: Loki might not have been a god of fire, but He is one now.

There is a very interesting article called: "
Loki, the Vätte and the Ashlad: A Study Combining Old Scandinavian and Late Material."
by Eldar Heide. (You can find the pdf here:

One example is that when the wife of the household made the morning porridge, she'd throw the stiff part that formed on top into the hearth fire and say "
Loki shall have his"
.
Another example is that when a child in the family lost a tooth, they'd throw it in the hearth fire and say "
Loke, Loke, ram, gi meg bentann for gulltann"
. This means "
Loke, Loke [ram], give me bone tooth for gold tooth"
. It's unclear what "
ram"
means. It can be used about food or drink and mean a strong, unpleasant taste.

There is also the Snaptun stone, a forge stone found in Snaptun in Denmark in 1950. It is thought to have a depiction of Loki with His mouth sewn shut, which can symbolise wildfire tamed. (On Wikipedia it says it's a hearth stone, but on the webpage of the museum where the stone is, it's called a forge stone. A hearth would never burn so hot that a guard for the bellows would be needed.)

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Re: Loki as a god of fire

Post by Corannhena on Wed Jan 14, 2015 7:47 am

In volume 9 of the My Book House series, The Treasure Chest*, there are two Norse myths that include Loki. One is "
[url=The Stealing of Iduna][/url]"
and mentions Loki as being a "
god of fire"
(twice). The books were originally written/edited/compiled (they're mostly stories that had already existed) in the 1920s. I don't know when "
Der Ring des Nibelungen"
was written, though. I have a sort of headcanon that even if Loki didn't start out as a "
god of fire"
that so many people believe he is that he was like "
you know what, let's just go with it."
'Sides, I see no reason that he can't be one, even if it isn't in the lore.

*I had this ENTIRE series growing up but never read this particular volume--! I wish I had, I probably would have learned about Loki a LOT sooner.
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Re: Loki as a god of fire

Post by Darkamber on Wed Jan 14, 2015 8:15 am

Richard Wagner wrote the libretto and music over the course of about twenty-six years, from 1848 to 1874. (Wikipedia)

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Re: Loki as a god of fire

Post by SuzyNyx on Tue Feb 17, 2015 7:54 pm

I absolutely believe Loki is the God of fire.

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Re: Loki as a god of fire

Post by Just.Christine on Wed Feb 18, 2015 3:42 am

I always thought this forge stone would serve as a warning reminder to Loki not to mess around with the smithies work. Because of what he did that led to his having his mouth sewn shut to begin with.
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Re: Loki as a god of fire

Post by Darkamber on Wed Feb 18, 2015 5:20 am

I personally believe that Loki isn't the god of fire, but a god of fire.
Other gods of fire are Logi, and Surtr who rules Muspelheim which is a realm of fire.

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Re: Loki as a god of fire

Post by corvid13 on Wed Feb 18, 2015 12:38 pm

Darkamber wrote:I personally believe that Loki isn't the god of fire, but a god of fire.
Other gods of fire are Logi, and Surtr who rules Muspelheim which is a realm of fire.


^Agreed!

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Re: Loki as a god of fire

Post by EmsigesViech on Sun Feb 22, 2015 3:43 pm

Hmm, fire... to me he is not even a proper God, but a giant by blood. He's somebody up there, aetherical to me, but not an Ás after all. Aaand he is of air... he treads the sky and cuts with mind, properties of the air. However he is not the cold wind, like Wotan, but a hot breeze. He carries ashes with it and sure has the passion of fire within him. And... is a bit of a pyromaniac...

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Re: Loki as a god of fire

Post by Moon Rouge on Sun Feb 22, 2015 4:18 pm

Snorri (The Prose) Edda
Gylfaginning:
XXXIII.
"
Also numbered among the Æsir is he whom some call the mischief-monger of the Æsir, and the first father of falsehoods, and blemish of all gods and men: he is named Loki or Loptr, son of Fárbauti the giant;
his mother was Laufey or Nál;
his brothers are Býleistr and Helblindi.

BTW, it is not written Layfey was giantess, she could be Ásynja, or something else.
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Re: Loki as a god of fire

Post by EmsigesViech on Sun Feb 22, 2015 4:28 pm

True, I have also stumbled upon those things... I don't want to claim my idea of him not being an Ás as correct... I don't know which is correct. Hmm, Tricksters... and worshipping. They usually are not worshipped in the fashion the others are, aren't they? It's got something to do with that, for me. The trickster is to be doubted, which is the opposite of what 'belief' stands for... I hope this explains my aversion to seeing him as a God among the others, he's too unruly.
Goodness, btw, thanks for reminding me to reread the Edda somewhen soon;
it's all too dusty in my memory.

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Re: Loki as a god of fire

Post by Moon Rouge on Sun Feb 22, 2015 4:51 pm

Many of us were brought up in fiction god=good.
This is not true. Gods = Powers
Gods are multifaceted, not one of them is only good or only bad.
Odin is also trickster, and sweet Frey was known accept blood sacrifice.
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Re: Loki as a god of fire

Post by EmsigesViech on Sun Feb 22, 2015 5:00 pm

True, and I made my parents freak out when I was a kid when I pointed out how brutal their God can be, too :;
):
And I am terrified of Odin.
But we are trailing off the forum topic, sorry guys!

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Re: Loki as a god of fire

Post by Moon Rouge on Sun Feb 22, 2015 5:13 pm

Back to topic:

Darkamber wrote:I personally believe that Loki isn't the god of fire, but a god of fire.
Other gods of fire are Logi, and Surtr who rules Muspelheim which is a realm of fire.

Yes, I also think this describes it best!

And this:
Elizabeth Vongvisith wrote: Loki might not have been a god of fire, but He is one now.
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Re: Loki as a god of fire

Post by Just.Christine on Sun Feb 22, 2015 9:36 pm

He gave heat to the blood and goodly color which would indicate heat/metabolism. And blood gives color.
And yeah, Odin can be a cold cuss and he is frightening when he has a mind to be. And cruel!
He can be a mean, shitty old man. :-P
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Re: Loki as a god of fire

Post by Lokakisa on Fri Mar 27, 2015 12:22 pm

I read somewhere that a folk tradition associates him with "
the dog days of summer"
(Lokabrenna) and also the shimmery air above the ground on a hot day.
Based on what I know so far, and until He tells me otherwise, I associate Him with air, hawks, heat shimmers, the warmth of passion (heat of the blood as mentioned earlier in thread) and the creative 'fire.' He can be capricious like wildfire, and can probably start a fire too. Like was said before, *a* god of fire. I just think of Him as heat and warmth and passion moreso than the element. Not that He wouldn't enjoy being toasted by a hearthfire or comfortable sharing family time around the hearth/dinner table.

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Re: Loki as a god of fire

Post by journeyintoinsanity on Fri Mar 27, 2015 1:57 pm

I agree. I make the association with fire because of the warmth. Smile
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Re: Loki as a god of fire

Post by Moon Rouge on Fri Mar 27, 2015 2:18 pm

Darkamber posted the links in Resources section I am positive this one is there too, I'm just lazy to look.

Loke in Younger Tradition by Axel Orlik has much mentioned above.

http://www.northvegr.org/secondary%20so ... index.html

Lokke as an Air Phenomenon (Denmark)
Lokke (Lokje) as the Home Fire
Lokje as a Teasing Creature of the Night
Lokke as a Supernatural Creature and Loke among the Aesir
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Re: Loki as a god of fire

Post by journeyintoinsanity on Fri Mar 27, 2015 3:31 pm

"
Teasing creature of the night."
*snicker* :;
):
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Re: Loki as a god of fire

Post by Lokakisa on Wed Apr 01, 2015 12:30 pm

Ehehehehehe *ahem* anyway ...
That link is really interesting. It reflects some things I had read elsewhere which formed my opinion. Now I am confused! What is Loki and what is supernatural creature! It doesn't seem like Loki minds the associations, and ultimately they may very well be connected somehow as that link summarizes.
I guess it's like what we've been talking about with the red hair and all, our culture has evolved and the gods evolve with it, They are Natural Forces/Cosmic Powers and can be damn well anything They want to be, possibly absorbing changing folk beliefs over time as it suits Them, up to and including pop culture stuff if it helps grab the attention of us mortals.
Actually ... as I think about it, it reminds me of a Kemetic thing. Supernatural spirits that aren't deities are called netjeri. They are any non-human spirit (including pets), and some are said to work for the Netjeru/be emanations of Them (like the Seven Arrows of Sekhmet, for example). This Lokke, Lokje, etc. thing almost sounds like a netjeri of Loki. Of course it's not said anywhere that He leads an army of pixies.
I guess while we honor Loki, we can also honor the house spirit(s)?
The names (and activities) are just so damn similar that it's hard to believe this ISN'T Asa-Loki evolved for the post-Christian conversion.
I'm hoping that Loki will tell me if something I believe is a mistake. But really, does He turn down the attention? As long as I keep learning, I guess everything is okay.

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Re: Loki as a god of fire

Post by erinlale on Wed Apr 01, 2015 3:04 pm

We like to have things in neat categories. God, giant, vaette, elf, the dead, we think of them as all different from each other. The line between god / giant, god / vaette, vaette / elf, elf/ the dead, god / elf was fuzzy in the ancient times. There was less taxonomy and more mystery.

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Re: Loki as a god of fire

Post by Lokakisa on Wed Apr 01, 2015 3:09 pm

Ah, you're right. I think the Greeks get the blame for our modern obsession with categorization. It seems to be the way we are taught to learn about things. It is difficult to find other ways to get in touch with the gods and spirits.

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Re: Loki as a god of fire

Post by Helloki on Fri Apr 24, 2015 5:30 am

fire like glam, attraction, destruction, hot!
heat of blood is a nice way to put it yep

not really fire, that is Logi indeed

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