the other wolves of Norse legend

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the other wolves of Norse legend

Post by Lokakisa on Tue Nov 24, 2015 10:30 am

Briley's vision of a wolf got me thinking, that and the Fenrir-wolf-progeny spirits on Creepy Hollows ...

What are your feelings about Hati (the one who chases the moon) and Skoll (the one who chases the sun)?
Have you met them or have you heard the gods speak of their existence?
Like Mani, does He mention them?
They are said to be the children of Fenrir, so does He mention them?
Those who encounter wolves in their dreams/meditations, do you think it is always Fen or another wolf of Iron Wood that perhaps wants to be a guardian or friend?
Since I am fascinated with Mani, I am fascinated with Hati too ... I don't know whether to think of them as "
evil/bad"
entities, or if they were invented by the Norse to explain eclipses, or if there is some kind of cosmic balance thing going on.

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Re: the other wolves of Norse legend

Post by journeyintoinsanity on Tue Nov 24, 2015 11:10 am

Well, it's no secret how much I adore Mani. Man of few words, though. The upg I get with Him and Sunna in regards to Hati and Skoll is that it's a relatively decent working relationship. Mani and Sunna are siblings as are Hati and Skoll. But with Mani and Hati it seems to be that Hati is kind of like a personal assistant that helps Mani stay organized and on track. Mani enjoys people, and kinda sometimes loses track of time when He's visiting. His job is very time-critical, so Hati makes sure to keep Mani on task. My upg when the moon is void-of-course is when Mani gets an extended break. Smile

Other wolves, to me... Obviously Fen is the main one. It depends on the appearance that lets me know who it is. I've only seen Fen in Wolf Mode a few times. I have a few wolf friends, too. Some are Iron Wood and others are from a different pantheon. They started out as Angels, but elected to become wolves to "
do dirty work"
to keep the universe in balance. Angrboda has appeared as a red wolf once. The nice thing about wolves is the sense of warmth, especially this time of year. They're like invisible electric blankets. Smile
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Re: the other wolves of Norse legend

Post by Lokakisa on Tue Nov 24, 2015 11:14 am

That is very cool. And good to hear about Hati.
I'd love to meet both Him and Mani but it seems like They have less time for people than Loki does, hah! ;
p
Perhaps during the New Moon I should try a contact?

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Re: the other wolves of Norse legend

Post by journeyintoinsanity on Tue Nov 24, 2015 11:35 am

Any time, really. I've found the connection to be a bit stronger during the full moon, though. But yeah, try whenever. Smile
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Re: the other wolves of Norse legend

Post by Lokakisa on Tue Nov 24, 2015 11:56 am

Heh, I was thinking of His "
time off"
lol, but that makes sense. ;
p

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Re: the other wolves of Norse legend

Post by ToriKitt on Tue Nov 24, 2015 1:37 pm

I was wondering about it too, lol, because Briley was just "
scruffy big creepy dog thing? D:"
and I'm like "
.... I got nothing."
That combined with reading about the legends of the sun surrounding Yule have made me very curious. I checked with Loki last night to confirm that Fen had paid Briley a visit and he said yes, so there's that. But I definitely believe there's plenty of other wolves out there, some associated with Norse mythology and some not.

As for the ones that chase the moon / sun in various versions, I'm not sure what to think. It's interesting to see everyone's UPGs though, and I've been very curious with the darkest day of the year coming up. I'm not sure how I feel on the surface about legends that "
explain"
the sun /moon's rising / falling, since we know so much (or think we do ;
P) scientifically about why it happens. I'm cool with stories about things happening on other plains, but when supernatural entities effect things HERE, it's harder for me to wrap my brain around. I wondered though if their chase and "
swallowing of the sun"
might be something that happens elsewhere and the sun's journey throughout the year is just our human reference to it? If that makes sense.

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Re: the other wolves of Norse legend

Post by journeyintoinsanity on Tue Nov 24, 2015 2:49 pm

Makes sense to me. I think mythology is super metaphorical. So is the physical world, too, sorta. But if I'm going to wax poetic about that, I need to not be entirely sober. (Which I'm rarely ever inclined to be not-entirely-sober.)
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Re: the other wolves of Norse legend

Post by ToriKitt on Tue Nov 24, 2015 2:50 pm

Lmao. I'd love to hear your ideas about it at whatever level of sobriety or lack thereof seems appropriate. XD

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Re: the other wolves of Norse legend

Post by Briley on Tue Nov 24, 2015 4:17 pm

I know that there's a good deal of legends globally that include wolves or other wild dogs. Less knowledgeable on the specifics, but I know Celtic lore has a few, and German, as well as French, Indian, Native American, and whathaveyou. It seems like most cultures have some story or other about wolves that paints them in a bad light. Even America, from different European roots, features things like Little Red Riding Hood, and so on.

Specifically Norse, I've only heard of Fenrir and his sometimes-included-sometimes-not sons, all of whom world-gobble or god-gobble. Does anyone with a bit more research under their belts know if there's Noridc-origin stories where wolves are featured in a good light? I seem to remember some smidgeon about Odin having a few he kept. . . What I'm wondering about is this sun-eating thing that may or may not be connected with Yule celebrations. Are all the versions told in a way where the sun's chased and attacked by a wolf, or are some more a cooperation thing, of a friendly (or at least cordial) nature?

If I hadn't gotten such a strong inclination it was Fenrir that I saw, I would have thought it could be any wolf, and Fenrir seemed most likely because he's in many ways the most infamous. But there was a definite mental pull to that name, and that aura, and Equa apparently asked Loki if Fenrir had visited, and he confirmed it. First I'm hearing of it, from above entry. Psh.

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Re: the other wolves of Norse legend

Post by journeyintoinsanity on Tue Nov 24, 2015 6:17 pm

Yeah, wolves don't typically get painted in the best light, for some reason. I never understood why, either. They're very family and pack-oriented, loyal and protective. But then, for me, they are family and friends, so my draw to them seems to make sense now.
Yes, Odin has 2 wolves and there's a wolf in Helheim that guards. But they are said to be mean and vicious as well. I don't get Fen that way. Fiercely protective of those He loves, absolutely. But vicious without reason, no. He's helped me a TON with controlling my emotions in a healthier way, especially my anger. I hate to think of how I'd be right now if He hadn't come to me.
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Re: the other wolves of Norse legend

Post by ToriKitt on Tue Nov 24, 2015 6:53 pm

:c
It makes me really sad that there's so much people have to say about Fen as a bad figure who only feels hate and destructive impulses. I find that VERY hard to buy about anyone, on the surface, because it just seems so implausible, that someone could be wholly "
bad."
But especially someone who's never done anything wrong, only been PREDICTED to do wrong. Or at least that was the case when the Gods bound him. That was just flat out wrong. >
/

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Re: the other wolves of Norse legend

Post by erinlale on Tue Nov 24, 2015 8:58 pm

This is more of my novel-gnosis, so, ymmv. Fenris was growing "
too big"
and was predicted to eat a god. "
too big"
/ eating too much was also the reason that Ymir was killed -- his sacrifice was turned into creation by recycling his body, but the actual reason was that he was starting to require more food per day than the universe at that time (before the worlds grew on the tree) could provide. It was a cold equation of resource consumption. Odin was young when he was called upon to kill his grandfather out of necessity for everyone else's sake. So that example of what is supposed to happen when someone grows "
too big"
was already set when the gods starting eyeing Fenris that way. In that context, binding him was a compromise, a way to keep him alive. Getting in control of his growth and resource consumption so he wouldn't eat the world before its time. It's almost a metaphor of Malthusian population control.

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Re: the other wolves of Norse legend

Post by journeyintoinsanity on Tue Nov 24, 2015 9:30 pm

Novel gnosis or not, it makes sense.

I've already shared my thoughts about the bindings, so I won't rehash. And I've also already talked about reading that passage about Fen in Jotunbok. It outlined a skinriding and it was so unfair of the person horsing to ask Him to appear that way. It's like, "
Hey come show up to my party. I'll set you up to trigger major PTSD. It'll be fun."
So disrespectful. Just invite Him for a cider and a hang-out. Heck, even a cup of mint tea. Sheez. Be nice. He is. (I can get defensive of Him really easily, can you tell?)
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Re: the other wolves of Norse legend

Post by Darkamber on Thu Nov 26, 2015 8:25 am

Yeah, it's cruel to invite Fenrir and then bind the horse. Invite him like that, and he will be angry!

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Re: the other wolves of Norse legend

Post by erinlale on Thu Nov 26, 2015 9:29 am

That sounds awful. I haven't read that book, and now I'm pretty sure I don't want to.

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Re: the other wolves of Norse legend

Post by Moon Rouge on Thu Nov 26, 2015 12:54 pm

First I have to say, I'm not found of binding....period.

I never read Jotunbok book, but there are pieces and bits of it all over.
What surprises me, (I think this is what Journey talks about) the part about Fenrir is written by Elizabeth Vongsvisith.
It is published in Northern Paganism Shrines under the title A Moment with Fenrir.
http://www.northernpaganism.org/shrines ... enrir.html

What else I found there interesting, were Nornoriel devotional writings (under that name) for Hlif, Hlifthrasa, Thjodvara, Bjort, Bleik, Blith, Frith, Aurboda, and Eir in the Mengloth's shrine of the Rökkr group. None of them is Vanir I guess.
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Re: the other wolves of Norse legend

Post by journeyintoinsanity on Thu Nov 26, 2015 1:54 pm

Yeah, I could not disagree more with that writing. Maybe at one point He was like that, but not now. There is so much more to Him than just "
anger and bloodlust."
And I hate that that's all some people associate with Him. Sad

Jotunbok does have some interesting stuff in it, but on the whole, it's not really how I get things. And that's fine. It's Kaldera's and other people's UPG, not mine. But that whole bit about Fen really put me off. I haven't picked the book back up too much since I read that.
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Re: the other wolves of Norse legend

Post by Corannhena on Thu Nov 26, 2015 2:16 pm

Idk if Fenrir has been here other than the one time I've already mentioned (if he has been, I haven't "
sensed"
him), and I haven't experienced him "
horsed"
, and I don't really know him all that well yet, but while he was here I wasn't afraid of him at all (a little nervous, but only because he was "
new"
to me, and--as I told him--I'm always nervous around new people [even if I can't see them]). I don't remember much of the convo we had, but I did offer him some black tea which he accepted, and I said he could hang around for a while if he wanted. I think he did, his energy lingered for a while, iirc.
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Re: the other wolves of Norse legend

Post by journeyintoinsanity on Thu Nov 26, 2015 9:55 pm

I was a little nervous at first, too, for the same reason. The first visit or two was kind of awkward because I wasn't accustomed to anyone but Loki. Fen did seem a little bit awkward as well, maybe because He knew me well but I didn't remember Him. But I quickly felt at ease. He's never given me any reason to fear or doubt Him. And I've only seen Him get upset one time. I think I blogged about it or posted it here, but it was when Fen, Loki, and Thor were talking about Odin wanting me to work with Him. That prospect flew like a lead balloon with Fen. He didn't want Odin anywhere near me because He doesn't trust Odin. He switched from dude form to wolf form and walked off from us. (He didn't want me to see Him upset.) Needless to say, I trust Fen's judgment and declined the offer politely. Which actually turned out to be the better decision since Angrboda made it clear that I'm Iron Wood. Smile
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Re: the other wolves of Norse legend

Post by ToriKitt on Fri Nov 27, 2015 9:30 am

:c I remember seeing something about horsing Fenrir and how "
it's wise to bind the horse"
and that the horse was likely to be angry and violent, and it just made me feel sick. I don't even think it was from that book, just some general article on horsing with Norse deities. x_x

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Re: the other wolves of Norse legend

Post by erinlale on Fri Nov 27, 2015 10:16 am

Hmm this is starting to make more sense... invoking a rage-filled wolf into a bound ulfhedhinn, or invoking a rage-filled bear into a bound bersarkr, is actually a thing, but it's a misunderstanding of the power used by those who have no training in that tradition.

People tend to get what they expect when they invoke a power, god or whatever. If I were to invoke Odin using a Gandalf figurine from the LOTR movie, I'd probably get Vegtam the Wanderer, more likely than some unrelated aspect like say, his snake form or whatever. That's the phenomenon that causes people who fear Loki to have their fears confirmed when they encounter him. People invoking Fenris expecting an ulfhedhinn might very well get an ulfhedhinn-- but I have to wonder if they're even getting Fenris. The rage-filled ulfhedhinn wolf is Odin's wolves. Not that they aren't related, sort of, but only in a tangential way and only if you already experience Loki and Odin as part of a trinity.

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Re: the other wolves of Norse legend

Post by Corannhena on Fri Nov 27, 2015 10:42 am

That's... soooort of similar to what I was thinking, that they got Rage!Fenrir BECAUSE they bound the horse, and expected him to be all... ragey.

[size=85:2tljggx7]also ragey is totally a word


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Re: the other wolves of Norse legend

Post by journeyintoinsanity on Fri Nov 27, 2015 10:42 am

Tori and Erin, both of you, yes. I've read something (and I can't remember where, as usual) about inviting a deity in but having an expectation of Them already in mind. You get what you ask for. If someone wants to let Fen skin ride, and that person only knows Him as the Big Bad Wolf and prepares for that aspect, guess what they gonna get? Fen on a bad day.

For me, it was like this with Angrboda. I'd read other people saying that She was fierce and unkind, therefore it made me nervous about meeting Her. So I never tried. I avoided it. But after the past life discovery, my feelings toward Her changed. I felt a loyalty, a sense that She wasn't going to kick my ass. Like a stern mom, loving in Her way, but not inclined to tolerate whining and woe-is-me. Put your big kid pants on and get shit done. Smile


What Erin said about the ulfhedinn, I agree. And I, too, wonder if it's actually Fen that they're getting. Because He seems to have very good control of His emotions. But PTSD is a hard thing to handle. If somebody triggers that, they may well be getting Fen in a bad way. But I've never seen Him like that, so I can't say either way.
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Re: the other wolves of Norse legend

Post by journeyintoinsanity on Fri Nov 27, 2015 10:43 am

Corannhena wrote:That's... soooort of similar to what I was thinking, that they got Rage!Fenrir BECAUSE they bound the horse, and expected him to be all... ragey.
Exactly.
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Re: the other wolves of Norse legend

Post by Moon Rouge on Fri Nov 27, 2015 10:47 am

erinlale wrote:Hmm this is starting to make more sense... invoking a rage-filled wolf into a bound ulfhedhinn, or invoking a rage-filled bear into a bound bersarkr, is actually a thing, but it's a misunderstanding of the power used by those who have no training in that tradition.

People tend to get what they expect when they invoke a power, god or whatever. If I were to invoke Odin using a Gandalf figurine from the LOTR movie, I'd probably get Vegtam the Wanderer, more likely than some unrelated aspect like say, his snake form or whatever. That's the phenomenon that causes people who fear Loki to have their fears confirmed when they encounter him. People invoking Fenris expecting an ulfhedhinn might very well get an ulfhedhinn-- but I have to wonder if they're even getting Fenris. The rage-filled ulfhedhinn wolf is Odin's wolves. Not that they aren't related, sort of, but only in a tangential way and only if you already experience Loki and Odin as part of a trinity.

Well said, it makes sense!
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