Satanism in The Troth?

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Satanism in The Troth?

Post by Just.Christine on Fri Aug 28, 2015 4:16 pm

I didn't want to keep posting this stuff on the Tarot thread.
Just so you can see that I'm not pulling this shit out of my ass here's a link to a wikipedia article:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Troth

It's in the history section of the article that the two founding members of The Troth came from the Temple of Set, a Satanic group. Their words, not mine.
Even the Neopagan calling the quarters is derived from The Golden Dawn.
I don't think The Golden Dawn is Satanic, at least not as viewable by the non-initiates and the new initiates. I studied a little bit of the Golden Dawn. I won't say that they're safe either. You're always going to have your Crowley's who can't resist the fascination of the Goetia. (Summoning of Lesser demons)

The Lesser Banishing Ritual of the Pentagram is fairly creepy if you really sit down and meditate (ponder)upon the meaning of what you're doing. On the surface it doesn't appear that your Banishing anything but it's a banishing ritual.

Just to make myself understood, I'm not against people who practice Ceremonial Magic, I'm not against Crowley, Satanists or Satanism. I posted the 11 rules of the Earth on this forum and it's Satanic. It's also pretty damn sensible.

I will say that I'm extremely cautious in my dealings with the Left Hand Path and those who walk it. There are a couple people who are extremely friendly and very likeable who 'walk that way.'. I may like those people very much but you won't see me conducting business with them if I can help it. I'm not talking about soap, candles and jewelry.

I will also add that some people who get involved with LH path get torn to bits by opportunistic assholes who can't resist playing cat and mouse.

Perhaps it was a bit harsh to say I don't think any work of Crowley's has a place in the public areas of Heathenry and Paganism. Perhaps it's just me (and the experiences that have colored my pov)saying I personally disapprove and just don't want to see it out in the open (like a pit for the unwary to fall in. :-P )just like how some Heathens who draw even tighter lines than me don't like unverifiable stuff mixing in with what they've labored so hard to keep pure. I guess we all have lines we draw and it's unfair to come out and say "
This is how it should be for Heathenism and Everybody"


With that said, it's my opinion that Heathenism(as a religion) is better off without LH path, Satanism, Crowley, and any Golden Dawn stuff being thrown into the pot.
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Re: Satanism in The Troth?

Post by journeyintoinsanity on Fri Aug 28, 2015 4:47 pm

Hmm... I was married to an opportunistic asshole for 2 years. (I was young and stupid, what can I say?) I steer clear of people like that, whether their path is left, right, diagonal, or zig-zag.
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Re: Satanism in The Troth?

Post by Just.Christine on Fri Aug 28, 2015 5:15 pm

journeyintoinsanity wrote:Hmm... I was married to an opportunistic asshole for 2 years. (I was young and stupid, what can I say?) I steer clear of people like that, whether their path is left, right, diagonal, or zig-zag.

Yeah, opportunistic assholes come in many varieties in all walks of life. LH Path tends to attract the power loving as opposed to something like Christianity, which strives to attract the humble and meek. Of course because it attracts the meek it also attracts the unscrupulous who prey upon them.

Also I think I chose my words poorly. By 'out in the open' I meant the endorsement of LH path stuff by Heathens to others-specifically new Heathens, directed to a wider audience and not just a small group thing or private thing.

"
Oh! You're new to Heathenism? Great! Go read Book of Lies by Crowley."

Or Israel Regardie or anything that has nothing to do with Heathenism or the God/desses.

It sounds like I hate all LH path stuff but I don't. I view some of it with distrust and distaste, but aside from being a wife and lover beating asshole, Crowley was an outrageous person with character. I would have liked to know him. I think he was manic depressive. He was a dramatic fellow and suffered from his own genius. He was certainly dramatic.

The famous poet William Butler Years was a member of the Golden Dawn. AE Waite and Years were probably amongst the more gracious and benevolent members. I've studied various schools of religion and mysticism and Ceremonial Magic Orders top my personal list of spiritual paths that attract egomaniacal jerks and power whores.
Sadly, reconstructionist Heathens aren't far behind in the egomaniacal jerk department. Drama and personalities everywhere you turn!

I depend on all of you to keep me honest and humble. When my ego flares up I'm fairly odious. I can stink up a place and bring a miasma down upon all and sundry, lol
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Re: Satanism in The Troth?

Post by Moon Rouge on Fri Aug 28, 2015 5:46 pm

I don't know more than I see here about it, so there may be more info to prove me wrong.
Thorsson work on runes andresearch is amazing and nothing to do with satanic stuff.
I know nothing of Chisholm, except his translation of The Poetic Edda and I myself prefer Bellows.

Still I don't think they were Satanist, maybe they flirted with the cult, as may happens in order of curiosity. If there was more than that, then I am wrong.
Asatru Alliance has so many issues and bad words and unfair judgement for Loki I don't trust much of anything whatever they say... I think they are the ones to call Loki Satan ....
The Throth is not all thumbs up for Loki, but also not a mud slinger.

Crowley .. I have more objection to his stuff than I can word. In general I don't see the glory in ordaining priest by altar sex performance. (Initiations of 8-11 degree )
What Crowley wrote is spiritual and amazing, mixed with pure baloney. And it is written to suck the reader in... You have be like Cinderella, with no birds to help, doing chores before going to the ball while reading it. I'm not found of any paths close and around this, and yes, Kabbala is Satanic by my opinion too.
But....
Asatru Assembly is not the source of judgement I would go by.
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Re: Satanism in The Troth?

Post by Just.Christine on Fri Aug 28, 2015 6:13 pm

Moon Rouge wrote:I don't know more than I see here about it, so there may be more info to prove me wrong.
Thorsson work on runes andresearch is amazing and nothing to do with satanic stuff.

Crowley .. I have more objection to his stuff than I can word. In general I don't see the glory in ordaining priest by altar sex performance. (Initiations of 8-11 degree )
What Crowley wrote is spiritual and amazing, mixed with pure baloney. And it is written to suck the reader in... You have be like Cinderella, with no birds to help, doing chores before going to the ball while reading it. I'm not found of any paths close and around this, and yes, Kabbala is Satanic by my opinion too.
But....
Asatru Assembly is not the source of judgement I would go by.

I have Thorssons Futhark rune book. It's a bit 'meaty' for a beginner and could use a glossary for those of us who don't know what a vitki is except by the context. That's the book I read almost daily to memorize the runes. Sadly, Thorssons left Asatru. I don't remember where I read this and it saddens me. Maybe he went back to Temple of Set? Maybe he's one of Jehovah's Witnesses or a Mormon, lol.

I see Kaballah as somewhat left hand. I think Kaballah has little to do with authentic Jewry. I know there are Kaballistic Jews, but what many people don't realize is that this stuff was based on the belief that Solomon trafficked with demons. Anyone who's read enough of the Bible would know that there was a goodly amount of years when 'Solomon turned away from the True God and followed after the gods of his wives.' (paraphrased) If you read his book of Ecclesiastes, you can see what God's grand gift of Wisdom did to Solomon. Inaugurated, he asked for wisdom to rule his people aright. The Bible says God gave him wisdom and also the riches Solomon didn't ask for. My theory is that God gave him access to virtually unlimited riches with which Solomon spent on every sort of experience that he gained wisdom from. Turning away from Yaweh and 'awhoring after strange gods' was part of the experience. The summoning of demons was part of it too.

In the end Solomon said everything is vanity and striving after the wind.
He said we're born, we live, we die. And nothing comes after and there will be no one to bring you in to see how those who came after you will treat all the hard work you left behind.

But I digress! Yes. Ecclesiastes is one of my favorite works and my favorite book of that body of work. It basically yanks the rug out from under the rest of it, lol.

The point is, not even Solomon was engaged in proper acceptable worship when he was dabbling with demons and according to his final word, it cost him a good bit of his sanity. Aside from that I forget what other point I was trying to make, lol. Ahhh, 50. Smile
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Re: Satanism in The Troth?

Post by Moon Rouge on Fri Aug 28, 2015 10:23 pm

I read Bible when I was 15..... most I don't remember by now. So I take it from you, Poppy, whatever you say.

For the glossary needed, when I read I do cross-reference for words and terms on computer. To be honest, only in plain English my vocabulary must be half of a native born, or someone who is working or otherwise socially active.
Funny, I learned English by reading without dictionary, I learned to feel words. Now I am used to look up stuff.

Ha, Edred Thorrson is actually Stephen Flowers... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephen_Flowers

And out of curiosity I clicked on the Left-Hand Path link there, and it is a lot of more lefty than I thought it would be.
Sometimes is good to check how little one knows. Left-Hand Path is Satanic and Black magic.

And my eyes are wide open remembering now, Sebastian Nono Lokason often said: I'm Left Hand Path.
I thought it means he does more seidhr than galdr. LOL on me!
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Re: Satanism in The Troth?

Post by Just.Christine on Fri Aug 28, 2015 11:09 pm

Wow, that's even more disconcerting than what I knew about. He was apparently practicing these paths simultaneously.

Not that it was anyone's business how he walked his walked or talked his talk, but I'd say it presents a conflict of interests to be involved with a left hand path order and holding an official position in The Troth.

The Troth is actually a good bit more Loki-friendly than previously times past and a Lokean holds an official position in their organization. Diana Paxson is their Shope and has been their steersperson in the past.

Also, I'd have to say The Troth volumes should be on every Heathen's shelves. There's a whole article dedicated to Loki in it and puts him in a fair light.

From reading Futhark, it's hard to imagine Thorsson being a Grand Master of Nonsense Triangles and Trapezoids. Laughing :8-):
On the other hand it's not hard to imagine because one of the aims of these mystic orders is to join other religions and churches to exert influence there.
I've been a student of the Rosicrucian Fellowship for the past 15 years, but stepped back from active involvement when I took up Heathenism. I still receive their weekly prayer list and I do still send them health reports for a little girl I've been sponsoring on their White Rose Prayer Group. I only continue to do so now because her grandma is New Agey and a real white lighter. It would disappoint her if I stopped collecting those health updates. I've sponsored this little girl since she was about a year old. She's about seven or eight now.

I'd really like to encourage her grandma to join the Fellowship and take over sponsorship of her granddaughter so I can take a further step back. Although I couldn't bring myself to ever completely leave them. I've benefitted way too much and their occult philosophy on evolution still mostly rings true to me. It's firmly rooted in Germanic occultism and philosophy and their descriptions of the multipartite soul is startlingly similar to that described in other Heathen literature.

They also take a firm stance against selling oracular services, which does influence my disapproval of making money from doing readings for monetary compensation. I doubt I'll ever change my mind on that score, but I also have friends who earn some money reading Tarot and casting horoscopes.
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Re: Satanism in The Troth?

Post by Lokakisa on Sat Aug 29, 2015 6:06 pm

Poppy.Meister wrote:

The Troth is actually a good bit more Loki-friendly than previously times past and a Lokean holds an official position in their organization. Diana Paxson is their Shope and has been their steersperson in the past.

Also, I'd have to say The Troth volumes should be on every Heathen's shelves. There's a whole article dedicated to Loki in it and puts him in a fair light.

So you like all their books? I was thinking of getting them after I finished collecting the "
Idunna"
journals (not all, just the issues that seemed most relevant to my interests). The one about herbs and healing sounds interesting but primarily Icelandic. I think Kaldera has done a book on Northern herb lore;
I have that in my Amazon wish list. I've seen a few others about English leechcraft and old English magic and what not but I can't figure out where to start.
There's a four-part series on Loki in "
Idunna"
(that I haven't read yet) but so far I've liked what I have read, very pro-environment and respecting of history, with translations and interpretations and generally bringing all the Viking/Celt/English stuff together along with crafts and recipes and travel info, mentions of Vanir and wights, etc. And the Loki series goes from historical context to modern worship, so I assume it's positive.

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Re: Satanism in The Troth?

Post by Moon Rouge on Sat Aug 29, 2015 8:22 pm

What I found in my short google quest was Sebastian's own writing about the paths:
http://www.patheos.com/blogs/ridethespi ... j-lhp-wtf/
Where he states:
The Right Hand Path often focuses on community and helping others, while the Left Hand Path tends to focus on one’s own advancement and personal betterment.
Now I understand why some BNP pagans feels obligation to community some not.
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Re: Satanism in The Troth?

Post by Just.Christine on Sat Aug 29, 2015 11:52 pm

Moon Rouge wrote:What I found in my short google quest was Sebastian's own writing about the paths:
http://www.patheos.com/blogs/ridethespi ... j-lhp-wtf/
Where he states:
The Right Hand Path often focuses on community and helping others, while the Left Hand Path tends to focus on one’s own advancement and personal betterment.
Now I understand why some BNP pagans feels obligation to community some not.
Ideally one's path should be a balance of both these things.
A person who wants to help their community should be able to see after their own well being first, as a person who neglects their self will be of little use to their community.
I just wonder what constitutes a BNP anyhow. 100+ followers? More than that? I think all the status stuff is silly nonsense anyhow. I'm a BNP. Brand New Pagan, lol.
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