Loki: Agent of Asgard

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Loki: Agent of Asgard

Post by Lokakisa on Fri May 08, 2015 1:10 pm

We were discussing this comic series elsewhere and I forgot who I was talking to ... :/
Anyway, I saw today on Amazon that there is a Vol 1 and Vol 2 of the collected comics, going up to issue #11. Are there any issues past 11?

ETA: I forgot to ask if I should read "
Journey into Mystery"
first, it sort of looks like it took place beforehand.

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Re: Loki: Agent of Asgard

Post by Darkamber on Fri May 08, 2015 2:10 pm

I read "
Journey into Mystery #1"
and then "
Loki: Agent of Asgard"
#1 and #2. I'm going to get "
Journey into mystery #2"
to see what happened before kid Loki became young man Loki.

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Re: Loki: Agent of Asgard

Post by Just.Christine on Fri May 08, 2015 2:13 pm

I read a sample of Loki: Agent of Asgard. I suppose he's bisexual in that series. Mmmm... because you can't have subtext without buttsex! Laughing
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Re: Loki: Agent of Asgard

Post by Lokakisa on Fri May 08, 2015 4:29 pm

Lolol

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Re: Loki: Agent of Asgard

Post by rjlatrans on Fri May 08, 2015 5:00 pm

It was me you were talking to! He's been officially bi since young avengers- kissed Prodigy, it was hilarious an cute. XD Bi-representation done WELL! It's awesome, it makes me smile so wide.

Yep, in this series he is bisexual (explicitly in the text, no subtext) and gender fluid (no lie legit teared up at when Odin said "
I am so proud of my son, my daughter, and my child who is both.)

It's a great series that deals with destiny and the roles force on us, on stories and magic. And Loki is there as a bisexual gender fluid awesome figure that is the first time I have seen myself in media done well.

It's only at 11 since it started last year?then went on a brief hiatus while the "
we have a long lost sister!"
storyline happened in another series

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Re: Loki: Agent of Asgard

Post by rjlatrans on Fri May 08, 2015 5:29 pm

Also although it isn't 100% necessary , I would say Young Avengers is a must read eventually to see Loki in between the event of Journey Into the Mystery and AoA. But AoA does a good job making it still a fairly easy tea even if you haven't read them.

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Re: Loki: Agent of Asgard

Post by Lokakisa on Sun May 10, 2015 9:37 am

Ah thank you, I didn't know about "
Young Avengers."
I found the collected book of that and added to my wish list. (And I'm embarrassed that I forgot who I was talking to. :/ I had your avatar pic in my head but your name had escaped me... )

Well, I suppose the gender-fluidness is one thing they got right from the lore. Though I'm guessing as far as lore is concerned, He is either straight-male or straight-female. Not that there hasn't been homosexuality/bi-sexuality from the beginning of history, but the Norse were pretty strict in gender division. It's today in modern times that we can see more ways of boundary crossing and be more accepting of it. Like I'm pretty sure He has some human male lovers.

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Re: Loki: Agent of Asgard

Post by rjlatrans on Sun May 10, 2015 7:23 pm

No problem! Besides 'Rjlatrans' ain't exactly the most memorable name via recognizable words. (It's pretty much initials + 'latrans' tacked on the end because Coyotes are awesome and that is their scientific name and I'm a huge dork).

I will say Young Avengers is fun and fast paced, though by the end I found it lacking in character development except for Loki. Everyone else feels fairly rushed. The art is awesome though! And omg Miss America. WHY COULDN'T THEY HAVE FLESHED HER OUT MORE. SUCH A LOSS.

As with mythology!Loki (aka god Loki aka the Loki present in the eddas and surviving myths), though the Norse were fairly strict in gender division it was not unheard of for men to lie with men- there was just the whole 'submissive' stigma for those on the receiving end (because yay ancient gender roles defined by sexual positions 9_9), and it was expected you had kids and did your duty as a warrior to 'pay your dues' as it were. Basically, you had to earn it to not be considered lesser or run out of town. /sigh (and from what I've read this was the view of Christianized writings and 'vikings'. So who knows what the exact views were of those of various nordic countries before the conversions took place!)

And by the time Snorri wrote down the Prose Edda he had a very specific view. Heck, I kinda think the only reason the amount of gender crossing that DID survive with Loki was because he was cast as the villain.

But yeah, I follow at least one male godspouse of Loki on tumblr, and I know of at least one nonbinary. I don't follow a lot of godspouses for Loki though (other gods- another story!). Mostly because I don't actively seek out Godspouse blogs and they more fall into my lap if I like their other stuff, since I myself see my relationship with Loki as more brotherly. So my demographics are probably only a tiny portion!

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Re: Loki: Agent of Asgard

Post by Moon Rouge on Mon May 11, 2015 10:11 am

Lokakisa wrote: ..... Though I'm guessing as far as lore is concerned, He is either straight-male or straight-female.
I never thought to formulate it this way, but to think of it now, I feel the same.
More fore because Loki is opportunistic in order to accomplish. He is smart and He will wing it any way to get the job done. And that is my personal feeling from the lore. Loki is about the job done before anything else, and He will use what comes around, change the gender, shape shift etc. etc.

As far as comics go I only took a look couple of times. It is fun. It is also like when you read Rudyard Kipling Jungle Book and then watch Disney Mowgli. One can hum The Bear Necessities and know that Balloo or Mowgli are not the guys from the book.
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Re: Loki: Agent of Asgard

Post by Lokakisa on Mon May 11, 2015 4:48 pm

Oh but I do love the animated Shere Khan ... ^_^ I don't think I ever read the actual book.

So yeah, I've heard of "
ergi"
and "
ragr"
so I don't mean to say that men didn't lie together and what not. I just thought it was a derogatory thing that showed their (or maybe the post-conversion writers') gender division.
(And then there's Sinric on "
Vikings"
...)
I've basically been on a crash course of Norse lore/history for only six months. I'd be the first to admit that I don't know it all.
I can't think of a lore example of male Loki with a male lover and so on. He was insulted for being a woman and bearing children.
But like Moon Rouge says, He did/does what He needed to do to get the job done. Changing is part of His nature and He doesn't see anything wrong with it.

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Re: Loki: Agent of Asgard

Post by rjlatrans on Mon May 11, 2015 5:17 pm

Ok, I am just gonna break down some basic MOGAI stuff though because I know y'all are pretty much all cis here, mostly straight, which means you won't realize how some things come off? And although I tried to play off the historical front to nicely kinda defuse it, I then sat and thought about it and I think I'm gonna be blunt a bit.

Sexuality doesn't change with form. Gender doesn't change with form (for the most part, depending on the person). When I am going by He pronouns and have my binder on, it doesn't make me any less genderfluid, it doesn't make me 'male'. When I am wearing a kickass bra and smokin' high heels and flirting with a guy, it doesn't mean I'm female and straight.

Bisexuality is attraction to two or more genders. If Loki shifted forms to be more appealing to someone, that means he experienced attraction within one form (say, a male form) and it carried over to the other (say, female form). So, he would never be straight, he would always be bi, at least by our understanding and standards.

And to say a male passing/female passing couple is 'straight' has a LOT of yuck in it, as it is dismissing the gender spectrum and what a person might identify as, and it also erases the sexuality of the people in question to boil down to what sex they happen to be having at that time. Just like a straight person will still be attracted to people of the other sex even if in a relationship, a bisexual person will still be bisexual and experience attraction (just having a monogamous relationship means in both cases you will not act on your attractions).

I mean, if I got into a relationship with a cis guy, I would be highly insulted to be called a straight couple or to have 'straight' attraction, because A) I am nonbinary, so tbh who ever is attracted to me is automatically drifting on the kinsey scale a bit since I am neither male or female, and I will always swoon after male and female characters and people and have to bite my tongue around many people (including my family) whenever the topic of attraction and which actors you find cute or etc comes up otherwise I might have to deal with anything from emotional,verbal, or even physical abuse.

Yes, Loki is a divine being and isn't automatically acting in human ways. But I find it interesting how everyone here seems to be trying to define him as straight or divorcing him from gender and how he interacts with it when that is a huge part of his story and why the Aesir turned against him in the Prose Edda.

So. Yeah.

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Re: Loki: Agent of Asgard

Post by Moon Rouge on Mon May 11, 2015 5:55 pm

rjlatrans wrote:Ok, I am just gonna break down some basic MOGAI stuff though because I know y'all are pretty much all cis here, mostly straight, which means you won't realize how some things come off? And although I tried to play off the historical front to nicely kinda defuse it, I then sat and thought about it and I think I'm gonna be blunt a bit.
Sexuality doesn't change with form. Gender doesn't change with form (for the most part, depending on the person). When I am going by He pronouns and have my binder on, it doesn't make me any less genderfluid, it doesn't make me 'male'. When I am wearing a kickass bra and smokin' high heels and flirting with a guy, it doesn't mean I'm female and straight.
Bisexuality is attraction to two or more genders. If Loki shifted forms to be more appealing to someone, that means he experienced attraction within one form (say, a male form) and it carried over to the other (say, female form). So, he would never be straight, he would always be bi, at least by our understanding and standards.
And to say a male passing/female passing couple is 'straight' has a LOT of yuck in it, as it is dismissing the gender spectrum and what a person might identify as, and it also erases the sexuality of the people in question to boil down to what sex they happen to be having at that time. Just like a straight person will still be attracted to people of the other sex even if in a relationship, a bisexual person will still be bisexual and experience attraction (just having a monogamous relationship means in both cases you will not act on your attractions).
I mean, if I got into a relationship with a cis guy, I would be highly insulted to be called a straight couple or to have 'straight' attraction, because A) I am nonbinary, so tbh who ever is attracted to me is automatically drifting on the kinsey scale a bit since I am neither male or female, and I will always swoon after male and female characters and people and have to bite my tongue around many people (including my family) whenever the topic of attraction and which actors you find cute or etc comes up otherwise I might have to deal with anything from emotional,verbal, or even physical abuse.
Yes, Loki is a divine being and isn't automatically acting in human ways. But I find it interesting how everyone here seems to be trying to define him as straight or divorcing him from gender and how he interacts with it when that is a huge part of his story and why the Aesir turned against him in the Prose Edda.
So. Yeah.

This is all this century stuff, so yeh why not. Prose Edda has its own hiccups as there is so much serving to the purpose, and paints the gods certain way, as Christianity had already upper hand.

As far as Tumblr goes I'm not about to discuss it, or any type of fandom. It serves its purpose for those who like it.

Lore and gods are not all and only about the sex.

When I see Loki in my dreams, in meditation, or going astral, for me He is always male. He may be something else for somebody else, but honestly, I have my head full with my own doxa to be able sort out someone's else. All these moments and visions are also very precious to me, and I have no smallest reason to change Loki's gender to it fit all fandoms.
However, in my first encounter with Loki, the feeling was not sexual or gender specified. It was religious, mystic and highly divine. He is before all the god. It is not the orgasm, and He gives that too, but the spiritual enlightenment what makes one go.
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Re: Loki: Agent of Asgard

Post by Just.Christine on Tue May 12, 2015 1:15 pm

rjlatrans wrote:

Yes, Loki is a divine being and isn't automatically acting in human ways. But I find it interesting how everyone here seems to be trying to define him as straight or divorcing him from gender and how he interacts with it when that is a huge part of his story and why the Aesir turned against him in the Prose Edda.

So. Yeah.

So, so many headaches. It's all really enough to make my head spin. To me, all people are human beings first and foremost. Beyond that, their sexual preference and identity is their own business and I don't want to be dragged into their gender politics.

As far as AoA Loki, it's a comic. It's fiction.

As for the real, lore-based Loki, I see his gender switching behavior written about as a means to an end not an end in and of itself. Odin changed himself into a snake to crawl through a hole to seduce Gunnlod so he could get the mead of poetry. This doesn't make him identify with being cross-species, like some of the more serious furries out there. Even when Loki changed into a horse it wasn't sexually motivated. Again, it was a means to an end. His pregnancy was incidental.

Of course one definitely gets the feeling that Loki is attracted to both genders and slips quite easily into a female form.

I'm not sure I understand how anyone here is identifying him as hetero. I just see people relating their own personal experiences between themselves and Loki.
I know there are lots of transgender people out there with Loki as their patron.
I'm not against all the LGBT stuff, it's just so full of complexity that it's intimidating and confusing to say the least. I just make a point to be respectful of all persons. Their sexuality and gender are irrelevant to me as far as extending respect and hospitality go. If I say 'she' when someone identifies as male but have a female form, I will most certainly call them 'he' if I make the understandable mistake of identifying by appearance until I'm told otherwise.[Like with Nono. I have to constantly be reminded that Nono identifies as 'He' when I read his blog posts or hear someone mention his goods and services on Etsy.

Because it's so intimidating and confusing, I just don't think about it at all except on a case by case basis.
For the record, I have a female body and identify as a woman. I highly prefer having sex with men, but am capable of sex with a woman if I have deep respect for her and fall in love with her. However I don't identify as either cis or bisexual. I identify as Christine or Poppy and female.

However, I'm fairly certain some of my confusion and stress stems from having Asperger's Syndrome, an Autism Spectrum disorder and I certainly wouldn't want anyone walking on eggshells about the subject on my account. I was just putting my two cents in there and I'm not sure I expressed myself very well. It's just one of those days. I'm moving in two weeks and that's another source of stress that tends to make even the most insignificant stressors more stressful than usual.
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Re: Loki: Agent of Asgard

Post by Lokakisa on Tue May 12, 2015 1:27 pm

Oh my goodness, I am so sorry.
I truly did not know of any other way to look at it. I was just thinking of what I know from history (which admittedly I don't know everything) and how society is now (that we can expand on the boundaries that Loki fluidly crosses.) And so much of the lore is colored by the Christian/Islamic/Roman writers that we really don't know everything for sure.
It surely wasn't meant to belittle His sexual identity or anyone else's.
Let me say it plainly, that I was not disagreeing with the idea of His bisexuality, which is why I said "
here's something Marvel seems to be getting right."
Although I haven't read the comics yet to see how it is handled.

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Re: Loki: Agent of Asgard

Post by Darkamber on Tue May 12, 2015 11:08 pm

rjlatrans wrote:Yes, Loki is a divine being and isn't automatically acting in human ways. But I find it interesting how everyone here seems to be trying to define him as straight or divorcing him from gender and how he interacts with it when that is a huge part of his story and why the Aesir turned against him in the Prose Edda.

I know the real Loki isn't straight. Maybe He could be defined as pansexual? I know He has male spouses and lovers, to whom He appears as male. He also has trans people as spouses and lovers. He also appears as female to female spouses and lovers.
I have personally seen Him as male, female and a hermaphrodite.
So He's definitely gender fluid and doesn't fit into any boxes.

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Re: Loki: Agent of Asgard

Post by Lokakisa on Wed Mar 02, 2016 10:55 am

I've finally read "Journey Into Mystery" and "Loki: Agent of Asgard."
My number one pet peeve was the inconsistent art.
Otherwise, the story was great, and looking past the Marvel canon, it really paints a great picture of how Loki is.

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Re: Loki: Agent of Asgard

Post by Darkamber on Fri Mar 04, 2016 5:50 am

I've just ordered "Loki: Agent of Asgard" #3. I'm looking forward to reading it!

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Re: Loki: Agent of Asgard

Post by Lokakisa on Thu Mar 10, 2016 9:30 am

I have to say, Odin and Freyja bickering was hilarious.

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Re: Loki: Agent of Asgard

Post by Darkamber on Fri Mar 11, 2016 2:38 am

I wonder what happened to Frigg?

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Re: Loki: Agent of Asgard

Post by Lokakisa on Fri Mar 11, 2016 10:19 am

I dunno, she's not mentioned at all.

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