" July, Sirius, and Loki"

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" July, Sirius, and Loki"

Post by Darkamber on Fri Feb 13, 2015 3:46 am

An interesting blog post by Lokavinr.

"
In hopes of curtailing some of the inevitable confusion about Loki and July/Sirius before it gets out of control, I decided to do a brief outline of what we know about it and where it comes from to answer some of the questions that surface every year."

Read more here:

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Re: " July, Sirius, and Loki"

Post by Nynx on Wed Dec 09, 2015 11:36 am

the link dosen't seem to work anymore Sad
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Re: " July, Sirius, and Loki"

Post by Darkamber on Wed Dec 09, 2015 12:10 pm

Seems like all the content is gone.

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Re: " July, Sirius, and Loki"

Post by Darkamber on Wed Dec 09, 2015 12:15 pm

What I can say about this subject is that Sirius in Icelandic is called Lokabrenna, which means "
Loki's burning"
.
Sirius was an important star to Viking sea-farers to use in navigation.
I think it was the Roman Tacitus who wrote about how they worshipped Sirius among the Vikings in Denmark.

The July for Loki thing was started a couple of years ago by Gallina Krasskova, where she asked people to honour Loki in July. Several bloggers did.
Since then, some people honour Loki at Sirius' helical rising, which once was in July. In some parts of the world it's now in August.

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Re: " July, Sirius, and Loki"

Post by Moon Rouge on Wed Dec 09, 2015 1:48 pm

https://readingheathenism.wordpress.com/2014/06/12/july-sirius-and-loki/ via WaybackMachine:

July, Sirius, and Loki
June 12, 2014 by lokavinr

In hopes of curtailing some of the inevitable confusion about Loki and July/Sirius before it gets out of control, I decided to do a brief outline of what we know about it and where it comes from to answer some of the questions that surface every year.

Lokabrenna in Folklore:

In Part I of Loke i Nyere Folkeoverlevering (“De Vestlige Nybygder”), Axel Olrik details some of the folk traditions involving Loki or figures with similar names in the Faroe and Shetland islands, as well as the UK and Iceland.

One of the words he cites in this study is a term reported by Finnur Magnússon from Iceland: Lokabrenna, which translates as Loki’s (Loka) Burning/Bonfire (brenna). Olrik suggests that his best assumption regarding this name is that “it stands in connection with the extreme late summer heat,” which he goes on to relate to the “dog days” of high summer in other European cultures (204).

He connects it to his discussion of another word, lokadaun, which refers to a sulfuric odor, and points out how both of these relate to heat, warmth, and fire. However, he concludes by mistakenly linking Loki’s name to flame, suggesting that the word might simply mean “burning like fire.” Later, in his discussion of continental Scandinavian Loki folklore, he hints that Lokabrenna may simply be read as the summer heat, and thus might be more easily discussed alongside Danish folklore about Lokke and the shimmering summer air.

While this article and the work of folklorists like Finnur Magnússon shed light on how Loki has been perceived in later Scandinavian folk beliefs, they are not an effective way of discussing how historical heathens may have thought of or honored Loki. Unfortunately, however, during the late Romantic era scholars were not so careful to distinguish between historical Heathenry and later folk customs, and thus the word Lokabrenna made it into the Cleasby/Vigfússon dictionary even though it is unattested in Old Norse sources. While it is very likely that the Loka in Lokabrenna does refer to Loki (as the fire etymology is linguistically unsound), this should not be read as an authentic heathen belief because we have no evidence from the period to support it.

July for Loki?

The practice of setting aside the month of July as a time for honoring Loki began (as far as I know) during the summer of 2012 with a blogging project started by Galina Krasskova. It was summer during which the Lokean community saw an influx of new members (yes, because of the Avengers) and the Troth heatedly debated but eventually decided to keep their ban on Loki during the Trothmoot sumbl. During this first July for Loki project there was a push to set an official date for a Loki holiday, which was meant to coincide with the rising of Sirius.

This proved to be a complicated task, however, as Sirius rises at different times in different latitudes.Last year, for example, Sirius rose in the Northern half of the US around August 8th. It looks like this year in my latitude (39.1 N) it will first be visible at dawn around August 10th.

But is it a bad idea to honor Loki in July?

No. Absolutely not. It’s never a bad time to honor a God to whom you feel close or wish to show respect, and I can understand the desire to have a Loki-oriented holiday. Some of the most helpful, most detailed posts about Loki I have found on the internet were written during July as part of this celebration, and I think that is a very positive thing.

However, as with all things, it is important to keep in mind and be honest about the fact that this is not an authentic heathen practice. Pretending it is only serves to spread misinformation, and misinformation is never good, regardless of the results.

We will never know if the Loki folklore discussed by Olrik and others has any basis in how Loki was perceived in the heathen era, and, unfortunately, we cannot assume much about it because of that. That being said, I don’t think late summer is a particularly bad time for honoring Loki. Although I do not buy into the “fire God” discussion, it is undeniable that many natural features of this season play into the way Loki is generally perceived by the Lokean community.

Although we usually try to distance ourselves from modern folklore being used in reconstruction, my kindred holds a blót to Loki in mid-August. We have a high density of Loki worshipers, and doing it to correlate with Sirius’ rising made more sense than some of the other dates people pick for Lokablóts (like April Fools’, ughhh). It has always been a positive experience, and I see nothing wrong with people celebrating in this way as long as it is never passed off as “authentic to the heathen period.”
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Re: " July, Sirius, and Loki"

Post by Lokakisa on Wed Dec 09, 2015 4:07 pm

Being the pedantic Virgo nitpicker that I am, I can see why people would want to separate Old Norse-era beliefs from modern folklore ... but good grief they weren't that far apart in this case. Could the beliefs have shifted THAT much??
You don't really see this kind of separation in other faith's reconstruction, or even in evolving unbroken faiths like Hinduism or Buddhism.
I mean hell, when you study Egypt and try to wrap your mind around Kemeticism, you see tons of contradictory beliefs that evolved over the thousands of years that civilization existed. The calendar is full of holidays that probably came from different time periods.
There are probably examples from other long-running civilizations too.
Many pagans, reconstructionist or not, are keen to say (and smartly so), "
it's all true and none of it is true."
You can't take every word like gospel, or that every little thing is a literal event. Especially considering how much of Norse lore was written by Christians and outsiders.
It's like the canon from your favorite TV show or something. You put it together in the context of the universe (culture) and then work on understanding how it applies to the modern world.
I've said some shit about Seb, and I regret how snotty I was (we're still on good terms btw), but I have to say that I think most of his stuff about Loki is spot-on. (I know I've said that I disagreed, and frankly I was just being a bitch at the time.)
So what if Loki WASN'T a "
fire god"
at one point? How come He can't be one now? The gods evolve, and our understanding evolves. Loki doesn't seem to mind it at all.
Fire, in itself, encompasses a lot of things. Put them all together and they do fit Loki, eh? The power of destruction and change, something that brings light to the darkness, heat, warmth, passion, energy, sacrificial fires, hearth fires, funeral pyres, even the heat of the blood if you support the Lodur connection.
I read something recently that pointed out how many times in the stories Loki is around a fire of some sort - He's responsible for cooking when travelling, He's the one who leads Thjazi to fiery death, He's the one who buzzes around the dwarves as they make Mjollnir, He invents the fishing net then burns it, He can gobble a lot of food but can't devour everything like Logi can ... He's passionate, mercurial, never seems to sit still. He instigates change to "
burn away"
what is no longer needed. He's like a fiery spark. (isn't there something like that in "
Fantasia"
?) Don't some people say He can "
light a fire under your butt"
? lol
I'll be the first to admit that I resisted the "
red-haired god of fire"
approach in the beginning, arguing against the validity of it. Now look at me, I have come to appreciate the fiery warmth of an auburn-haired fellow ... and finally found "
my"
version of Him in the character of Loki Laevatein.
I could be wrong, but ... well it's like saying the sun is Sunna or Apollon or Ra, none of it is really wrong.

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Re: " July, Sirius, and Loki"

Post by journeyintoinsanity on Wed Dec 09, 2015 8:42 pm

Yes, all of that! Very Happy
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Re: " July, Sirius, and Loki"

Post by erinlale on Fri Dec 11, 2015 6:25 pm

How do I find out or calculate when the heliacal rising of Sirius will be in a given year?

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Re: " July, Sirius, and Loki"

Post by Moon Rouge on Fri Dec 11, 2015 6:39 pm

erinlale wrote:How do I find out or calculate when the heliacal rising of Sirius will be in a given year?
To google it is OK, someone usually post it around the given day, but be aware the time changes with the latitude.

This is the simulator:
http://astro.unl.edu/classaction/animat ... ngsim.html
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Re: " July, Sirius, and Loki"

Post by erinlale on Fri Dec 11, 2015 6:51 pm

Thanks! OK so the date is going to be different in different parts of the world. Of course it is, nothing could be that easy. Haha. I want to include this holiday on my heathen calendar project, so I am trying to find a date for it for 2017 (and next year I'll be calculating it for 2018. Assuming the calendar is a hit and we do another one the next year.) This project seems to involve a LOT of math.

If I were to estimate a general range of dates that would work for wherever one might be in the world, for the year AFTER next year, how would I do that?

Thanks.

Smile Erin

P.S. would you like credit on the calendar as a contributor of holiday dates?

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Re: " July, Sirius, and Loki"

Post by journeyintoinsanity on Fri Dec 11, 2015 8:36 pm

Moon Rouge wrote:
erinlale wrote:How do I find out or calculate when the heliacal rising of Sirius will be in a given year?
To google it is OK, someone usually post it around the given day, but be aware the time changes with the latitude.

This is the simulator:
http://astro.unl.edu/classaction/animat ... ngsim.html

Changes in latitude, changes in attitude, nothing remains quite the same... :;
):
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Re: " July, Sirius, and Loki"

Post by Moon Rouge on Fri Dec 11, 2015 10:45 pm

erinlale wrote:Thanks! OK so the date is going to be different in different parts of the world. Of course it is, nothing could be that easy. Haha. I want to include this holiday on my heathen calendar project, so I am trying to find a date for it for 2017 (and next year I'll be calculating it for 2018. Assuming the calendar is a hit and we do another one the next year.) This project seems to involve a LOT of math.

If I were to estimate a general range of dates that would work for wherever one might be in the world, for the year AFTER next year, how would I do that?

Thanks.

Smile Erin

P.S. would you like credit on the calendar as a contributor of holiday dates?

I'm in New York, my latitude is 40° 42' North. Helical rising of Sirius was in 2014 on August 7th and in 2015 on August 8th. One could assume go this way on.
Not so....
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sothic_cycle
"
Because Sirius lies ~40˚ below the ecliptic, the wobbling of the celestial equator and hence of the horizon at the latitude of Egypt, as well as the proper motion of the star, causes the Sothic year to be slightly smaller. Indeed, it is almost exactly 365.25 days long, the average number of days in a Julian year."


So, by this, the rising of Sirius stays around same date for a while. It moves about one day ahead in 4 years. Since it moved in from 2014 August 7th to August 8th in 2015, I guess it will stay on this day for 4 years until 2019.
I looked your FB page to see where you are. Your latitude is 36° 02' which is pretty much close to 40°of NY, so your date may be about the same.

Don't worry about credits, what if I am wrong! Smile
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Re: " July, Sirius, and Loki"

Post by Moon Rouge on Fri Dec 11, 2015 10:51 pm

journeyintoinsanity wrote:Changes in latitude, changes in attitude, nothing remains quite the same... :;
):
You telling me! I'm so busy my altar practice changed.
I poured the drink for Loki, gave Him cup of coffee and cookie to boot, lighted the candle, and left to fold laundry. Yes, it is almost 11PM and my machines are still running! Evil or Very Mad
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Re: " July, Sirius, and Loki"

Post by journeyintoinsanity on Sat Dec 12, 2015 9:36 am

Ah, laundry. The never ending task... :/
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Re: " July, Sirius, and Loki"

Post by erinlale on Sat Dec 12, 2015 9:57 am

Thanks! That is exactly the info I needed! The simulator wasn't telling me how fast it precesses.

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